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Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

  • 1.  Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Mar 25, 2019 04:47 PM
    Hi everyone,
    There is a lot of confusion surrounding the promotions of upgrading your software licenses either to NAV2018 and maintaining your "Concurrent users" licensing model or going to Business Central using "Named-Users" licensing model.  Below is a blog that we have put together that hopefully clarifies your options and helps you make decisions BEFORE the looming April 1st deadline!

    Happy reading!

    https://qixas.com/microsoft-dynamics-nav-business-central-licensing-initiatives-and-april-deadlines/



    ------------------------------
    Debbie Clark
    Toronto Co-Chairperson,BCUG/NAVUG
    Qixas Group Inc, COO
    dclark@qixas.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Mar 26, 2019 08:18 AM
    The only "deadline" for existing NAV Users is July 2020.  Nothing people should be nervous about.  I don't even know if that is a real deadline.  Microsoft should honor the 2-to-1 User ratio for all clients who transition from pre-BC to BC, as the User model changed.

    ------------------------------
    Ben Baxter
    Consultant
    Accent Software, Inc.
    carmel IN
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 30 days ago
    Edited by Anthony Darden 30 days ago
    @Ben Baxter - to be clear on the 2-to-1 ratio moving from concurrent users to named users, this is just for one year correct?  After that the transition 2-to-1 ratio becomes 1-to-1.

    However, I know Microsoft is looking at ways to help multi-shift and group-style users as far as licensing goes as well.  For example, one workstation on the production floor serves one user per shift over a 24-hour period.  That lends itself well to a group license concept where you would pay for one license but it accommodates 3 users.  I am hopeful Microsoft will continue considering situations like this and look forward to where this all lands over the next year or so.

    Tony  ​

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    Anthony Darden
    Director of IT
    Protective Industries, Inc.
    Buffalo NY
    NAVUG All-Star
    NAVUG CIO Council
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 30 days ago
    @Anthony Darden, has there been anything official from Microsoft about this? Licensing is our largest concern about upgrading to BC because we have the same issue you described. If there is anything they have published about the topic, I'd love to read up on it. Thanks! ​

    ------------------------------
    Morgan Heller
    Agropur Ingredients
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 30 days ago
    @Morgan Heller - nothing official that I am aware of, but they are listening and many ideas have come up along the way.  I would continue being a voice to your NAV/BC partner and this community to help get to that answer, because ESPECIALLY when it comes to the 2-to-1 ratio, it's just a sugar high if it's not permanent or at least stretched over a number of years to help work it into the operating budget.​

    ------------------------------
    Anthony Darden
    Director of IT
    Protective Industries, Inc.
    Buffalo NY
    NAVUG All-Star
    NAVUG CIO Council
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 29 days ago
    Edited by Peter Lundrigan 27 days ago
    Just a thought... to put this in perspective. We have become very familiar with the Named User model, for those of us that have transitioned over the years to Office 365. We pay for every user on a monthly basis for every program we participate in.  We pay a "NAMED" license for Office itself, want Power BI, another named license, etc. Unless of course you by E5 subscriptions.

    That said, It makes all the sense in the world, why Microsoft would do this. However, I agree with the community on this. If you are going to change the model. Bring the cost down, we get the 2-1 conversion as an appeasement step. So you are spending approx. 1500 per license  (3000 per license, convert 2:1). Or to put in Office 365 subscription terms that is $125 per month per license.  With NAV/BC we still pay enhancement which buys us software upgrades,  which we do not pay in the Office 365 realm.  So why not, reduce the license fee to $35 per month like an E5 license of Office which gives me access to 13 different products.

    I had initially thought we the NAV/BCUG community should unite and mutiny (do not upgrade to BC) the Named User model especially for those in Manufacturing  or multi-shift environments.  However, they know they have us. I am right now starting the move to BC on-premise. We need to keep this critical business app current and functional.

    That all said, I am one who believes there is a happy medium here between end-user satisfaction (with licensing fees) and Microsoft profitability. I think if Microsoft calculated in loyalty and retain-ability (if that is a word) in their calculations they could move to a more cost effective Licensing model that works for the NAV/BC community.

    ------------------------------
    Peter Lundrigan
    Director of Business Systems
    Barkley Ag Enterprises
    Atwater CA
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 28 days ago
    I agree with @Peter. Now how do we get Microsoft on board?​

    ------------------------------
    Gregory Alford
    Director of Technical Resources
    Tri Star Metals LLC
    Carol Stream IL
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 27 days ago

    @Gregory, I am not sure. They are the 800lb gorilla it will be tough to move them. However, maybe the NAV/BCUG leadership have some pull with the right people at Microsoft to start the conversation, and they will be advocates for change on behalf of the NAV community. They could be the conduit between us lowly end-users and Microsoft. Just a thought.

     

     






  • 9.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 23 days ago
    Hi everyone,

    I have good news and not so good news on this. The good news is, as Tony Darden said, we have been talking to Microsoft for several months now about this very real and significant issue of conversion - your Board of Advisors and the CIO Council have both shared real examples and potential solutions in a collaborative effort - and Microsoft has listened. The not so good news is that we are still awaiting an answer.

    I spoke with one of the Principal Program Managers (top spot in the R&D team) a couple weeks ago, and they are keenly aware that this is a pressing issue that needs a workable solution. I've just pinged them again with a link to this thread for an update.

    This will continue to be on my to-do list until we receive a viable solution.


    ------------------------------
    Mark Rhodes
    General Manager, BCUG/NAVUG
    Dynamic Communities
    Windsor CO
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 23 days ago
    ​Is there something that would prevent us from creating a "shop" generic account, other than losing the trace of exactly who in the shop did what in the system?

    And is it confirmed that the 2 to 1 conversion only lasts a certain amount of time, it isn't permanent?

    ------------------------------
    Samuel Champoux
    IT Director
    Drummondville QC Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 23 days ago
    Edited by Lewis Rosenberg 23 days ago
    @Samuel Champoux

    One of the VARs we work with just sent out documentation that state's that the 2-for-1 "discount" has an end date of June 30, 2021.

    More details in bullet point 5 on their document:  https://www.tecman.co.uk/media/pdfs/dynamics-365-business-central/Part-1-The-Basics-Upgrading-to-Dynamics-365-Business-Central-from-Dynamics-NAV.pdf


    ------------------------------
    Lewis Rosenberg
    IT Manager
    Mars Fishcare
    Chalfont PA
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BCUG/NAVUG All-Star
    BCUG/NAVUG Board of Advisors, Chairperson
    BCUG/NAVUG Programming Committee

    Twitter: @RosenbergL
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosenbergl
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NAVUG/BCUG Summit (navugsummit.com)
    Orlando, FL - October 15-18, 2019
    Call for proposals: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/UGSummitNA2019
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 23 days ago
    Lewis, I sent that info to my Partner and will report back on what they say.
    The way they were selling it to me was looking like it was perpetual, not ending after a year.

    ------------------------------
    Samuel Champoux
    IT Director
    Drummondville QC Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 23 days ago
    Thanks for the update Mark.  It is great to hear that you are addressing this directly with Microsoft.  They need to have a solid understanding that for organizations running multiple shifts, this is a major blocker to upgrading.  In our case, this happens to be the primary reason for us not upgrading to BC. Here's to hoping there is some sort of reasonable resolution to this self inflicted problem.

    ------------------------------
    Chris Bernsdorf
    Agropur Ingredients
    La Crosse WI
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 22 days ago
      |   view attached
    The BC On-Prem 2:1 user policy with Microsoft does not expire.   It's not a discounted amount, it's not a special deal that ends anytime and it is a part of the permanent upgrade License Migration Transition (LMT).

    To confirm, I reviewed this with our counterparts at Microsoft.

    According to Microsoft's Dynamics 365 Business Central on prem Upgrade Policy, page 3 reads,   "Dynamics NAV 2009 and Dynamics NAV 2018 customers transitioning to Dynamics 365 Business Central on-premises will receive two Business Central on-premises Full Named users for each NAV Concurrent Full user licensed prior to October 1, 2018."  I attached the policy below or feel free to email me at dlane@innovia.com and I'll send you a copy.

    Microsoft did a date stamp of every NAV account on October 1, 2018 and that user count is what's used as the basis for the 2:1

    When your partner initiates your License Migration Transition (LMT) upgrade order (Basically orders your new BC On-Prem License), the friendly folks in MBS Orders do a manual mapping for you from Microsoft Dynamics NAV 2009 Licensing or Microsoft Dynamics NAV 2018 Perpetual with the Extended Pack to Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central On-Premises which is a two-part process.

    The first part is where their team manually maps the Customer's Microsoft Dynamics NAV 2009 or Microsoft Dynamics NAV Perpetual License to figure out what they will receive in the transition. Then their team creates a .pdf document with the Customer's Current Installation, Transition Mapping, and Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central On-Premises Installation listed on it.

    After this .pdf document passes an internal review, they email the Partner for their approval of the mapping before creating the LMT order.

    Once your Partner approves the mapping listed on the .pdf document, Microsoft proceeds with the second part of the process, which is creating the manual transition order.  Then you have 180 days to migrate your data and upgrade.  After 180 days you cannot add or change your old license, unless you have due cause and your partner may request another 180 days.  We even did a third request once.

    You may wish to check back in a few weeks on this posting as their might be an addition to Microsoft's policy giving more users for those customers that have greater than 100 Full Concurrent Users.

    So.. there's no deadline, and it's a permanent LMT Policy.

    Cheers!

    Donavan

    ------------------------------
    Donavan Lane
    Chairman
    Innovia Consulting
    Onalaska WI
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted 22 days ago
    Edited by Samuel Champoux 22 days ago
    I asked my Partner and got the same information as Donavan, the 2-1 is perpetual.

    They also sent me this info:

    All perpetual-licensed types of customers with older versions (NAV 2018 and older) that were active (that is, had licenses and active BREP) before October, 01 2018:
    Can continue using their products as they are and purchase additional licenses and objects; there is no date limiting the usage unless they pay active BREP
    Will be able to upgrade to Dynamics 365 Business Central perpetual anytime, with concurrent users to be converted to named users:
    One Full User (Extended Pack) – to two (2) Premium users
    One Full User (no Extended Pack) – to two (2) Essential users
    One Limited User – to one (1) Team Member
    Objects – as they are
    The total value of licenses remains the same. E.g., if there has been 10 perpetual licenses of total 10,000 USD, then they will be converted to 10 named licenses of value 10,000 USD plus 10 extra named licenses with zero value; this total value will be used for the BREP calculation
    Upgrade from Essential to Premium will be available (still open), but not backwards
    Application Builder and Solution Developer are converted 1-to-1


    ------------------------------
    Samuel Champoux
    IT Director
    Drummondville QC Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 22 days ago
    Another useful tidbit of secret license info..  You can get a Full (Premium) Business Central Saas for $20/user/Month as long as your current on NAV maintenance.  That's 80% Off!    You don't have to get the 40% off SKU until your ready to switch permanently to the cloud and let your maintenance cost go away forever.

    It's a no brainier because it's that cheap to get this now to evaluate Business Central in the cloud and its much better than a free trial as it doesn't expire in 30 days.

    The  $20 SKU is: Dynamics 365 Business Central Premium Cloud Add-on From DPL (Qualified Offer).

    Even crazier cheap is the team member SKU for $1.40/user, Dynamics 365 Business Central Team Member Cloud Add-on From DPL (Qualified Offer).

    Talk to your partner and have them provision one of these CSP subscriptions and you can even check out the Intelligent Cloud Service (ICS) which basically is the new migration/upgrade path to BC in the Cloud.

    Hope this helps!

    Cheers!

    Donavan

    ------------------------------
    Donavan Lane
    Chairman
    Innovia Consulting
    Onalaska WI
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 21 days ago
    This is interesting to me. I think if they extended this pricing model  to the on-premise users of BC, most of us would not be as concerned about named users vs. concurrent users.

    ------------------------------
    Peter Lundrigan
    Director of Business Systems
    Barkley Ag Enterprises
    Atwater CA
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 17 days ago
    Hi Donavan (or anyone else that can confirm) - what if you have purchased last year 2018 Cloud Subscription model with concurrent user licensing? Does the same 2-1 conversion apply and still available as the "on-prem" upgrade policy? Thanks for any advice!​

    ------------------------------
    Jim Wilson
    Independent Consultant
    Launch Project Management Ltd
    Bolton ON
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Upgrading to NAV2018 versus Business Central - DATE SENSITIVE

    Posted 21 days ago

    One thing to consider if upgrading and using the free version of Zetadocs Express in NAV.   They have changed the licensing to only allow it free for up to 4 users.  They now charge $65 per user. However, there is still no charge for view only access of documents.

     

     

     

     



    ------------------------------
    Cliff McDaniel
    Director of Operations
    John H. Carter Co., Inc.
    Baton Rouge LA
    ------------------------------



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